Rift - How long have you been writing songs?
KB - I didn't write songs to begin with. I wanted to be a hot shit guitarist but it didn't work out. I've gotten good at playing the wrong way. I think if you get good at playing the wrong way it can make you a good player because you're unique. In High School I was in cover bands and in 1981 I joined a punk rock band called "The Dads," and that's when I started to write...very poorly. My writing was passable but unbelievably derivative. I was in one band for about five minutes that copyrighted my songs behind my back and than kicked me out. Have you ever heard that song by Tom T. Hall called "Pretty Pamela Brown?" Leo Kottke used to do it.
Rift - No, I've never heard that song.
KB - The point behind the song is the girl dumps him and it turns out to be a favor because it made him into a troubadour that traveled around having a great life and in the song he's thanking her for breaking up with him. That band was my Pamela Brown because it made me start to sing my own stuff and take responsibility for myself instead of waiting around for the Beatles to happen to me. It seems trivial now but when you're in your 20's everything is more dramatic and everything that happens to you is the only thing that is happening in the whole world. At that time it was devastating which is embarrassing to me now because it wasn't even a good band.
Rift - How did you break into professional songwriting?
KB - I was opening for someone in town as usual and there was a producer in the audience named David Z (Prince, Fine Young Cannibals) and he came up after our set and gave me fatherly advice. He said, "you might never be a rock star, but your songs are good. You should give me a tape of your songs and maybe I'll put one on a record." He ended up putting my song "Riverside" on Kenny Wayne Shepherd's first record and it went platinum and I never looked back. People always say it's so hard to get your lucky break but if you hang around long enough and your good enough at what you do people will notice. But the problem is people quit before they get their lucky break or they aren't paying attention when they're lucky break happen. I was woefully misguided. I was supposed to be a writer and now a producer. I was never meant to be a rock star.
Rift - How did you get your publishing deal with Leiber and Stoller?
KB -I signed up with Bug Music like a lot of people do when they start up and a lady at Bug left and went over to Leiber and Stoller. She played my songs for Mike and Jerry and I got the deal. Leiber and Stoller are the two old dudes who wrote "Hound Dog." I was the first person in 20 years to sign a publishing deal with them and I thought I was special but they really didn't have any current connections anymore. They didn't have the mechanisms to pitch the songs. They are great people though. I did a couple of publishing deals after that but than I swore them off. I run it myself now because at this point I have 3 platinum records, 12 million in sales, a Grammy nomination, a Grammy win for a song I wrote for Etta James, and not once did I get anything like that from a publishing company. I think my success took Leiber and Stoller by surprise. It took me by surprise; it took everyone I know by surprise. The problem with these publishing companies though is you're basically giving the publisher 25-50% of your royalties in return for an advance that you have to pay back and they tell you that you're going to be writing for Jesus Christ and Elvis and Elvis is dead.
Rift - I've read that you discovered Jonny Lang. How did that come about?
KB - Shortly after the Kenny Wayne Shepherd thing happened I had a gig up in Fargo at Playmakers Pavilion where I accidentally discovered Jonny Lang, which is like, saying Columbus discovered America. If I didn't stumble upon him than 5 minutes later some other fucker would have. It was painfully obvious. Even the stupidest A&R guy in the world, which is really saying something, would have noticed that this kid was freakishly gifted. He had only been playing guitar for 9 months and he was 13 years old. The best part was I was opening for the fucking 13 year old! I brought him to Minneapolis and introduced him to David Z.
Rift - You really gained a lot of momentum.
I had a couple of years where my clients would go platinum and I'd go to the mailbox and pick up my money and write another song. Some people make the mistake I did and consider gifts to be entitlements. I thought that this is the way it's going to be from now on. You feel like you deserve it, but guess what? Art is random, it's luck. Sometimes people who suck do really well; sometimes people who are great do really shitty. Every year is a crapshoot. The year of 9/11 Jonny Lang went through some changes, without being too specific, that took away a lot of his viability as a commercial artist. I had another client named Shannon Curfman. I wrote most of her album. She made some bad decisions that ended up preventing her from having a relevant career. I had a year where I was King Midas in reverse. Everything I touched turned to shit.
Rift - So you started to feel like Todd Rundgren?
KB - Yeah, I don't know how Todd feels. I realized I couldn't survive by viewing myself as a songwriter per se. I started to write jingles, I got the offer to play guitar for Paul Westerberg, I'm doing a film score, and I started to produce. Now things are going gangbusters. I've had about 25-30 of my songs in TV shows and I'm scoring an independent film called "Dirt" which is about dirt track racing in the south. I also got hooked up with ESPN. I've been working with them for three years doing songs for X-Games and some bass fishing show that they do.
Rift - You played guitar for Paul Westerberg on his "Folker" tour. How did you get that gig?
KB - I've known Paul since 1981. My band opened for his and his band actually opened for mine if you can believe it or not. He was the first person I met or heard who made me want to be a songwriter. I just wanted to be a guitar player until I heard his stuff and I thought, "God, Jeff Beck isn't in this band and they are unbelievably great." He was writing what we all were living. In about 1982 I was having coffee with Paul and I asked him "How do you do it" and he said, "Kevin, you're a funny guy, you should write like you talk." Unfortunately it took me 10 years to figure out what he was talking about. You have to be simple but fresh. "Hound Dog" and "Stand by me" has been taken. A lot of the great simple ideas have been taken. Paul is really great at it.
Michael Bland called me right after Mono/Stereo came out and asked me to come down because Paul was thinking of doing a full band tour. It was Jim Anton, Bland, Paul and myself. It felt great. Partly because I spent a good part of my life trying to rip off Paul's guitar playing so I already kind of knew what to do. I walked into the room the first day and Paul said, "Kevin, I've always felt like we've had some unfinished business." He ended up doing the tour solo but the next time around for the "Folker" tour he called me up. Jim Boquist formerly of Son Volt ended up replacing Jim Anton on bass guitar. Jim was really the glue that kept everything together.
Rift - What were the shows like on tour?
KB - They ranged from the sublime to the ridiculous. Within shows we were the greatest band in the world and the next hour we weren't the best band in the world. Spontaneity is the most important thing to Paul. I learned a lot from him on that tour. Over the years I had let go of my understanding and commitment to spontaneity. I was too focused on getting it right. He doesn't care about getting it right. He just cares that it's real, it has guts and everyone means it. He can't stand if you fake it. You sacrifice for that. If you're going for those high highs you have to be able to put up with those low lows. Most bands don't want to put up with the low lows so they rehearse their asses off and it's the same every night. It's a 7 every night and even supposed punk bands these days are like that. Every record is perfect. There are no mistakes on those records. They may as well be produced by fuckin' Mutt Lange. Paul doesn't want that. He's willing to live with 3 and 4 moments to reach those 10's. His records mean a lot to a lot of people including me. Mono/Stereo is about as good as it gets.
Rift - What song was the most fun to play on tour?
KB - "As Far as I Know" is as good of song as anyone has ever written. Playing that every night was my favorite. That and maybe "Alex Chilton" but more in a nostalgic sort of way.
Rift - That's one of the best songs ever written in my opinion.
KB - Yeah it is. But playing "As Far as I Know" was the most fun. That band played that song with such energy. Bland just killed it.
Rift - What's it like to work with Michael Bland?
KB - You always know where the 1 is and he hits the drums hard. It's hard to play badly with him because he's always right on.
Rift - Who are you are currently working with?
KB - I've been working with Jo Shaw Taylor for a couple of years. She's 21 years old, blonde and British. She's done sessions with Bill Wyman from the Stones and she's toured Europe with Dave Stewart of the Eurythmics. She is just an incredible guitar player and a beautiful singer. I think she'll be an inspiration to other young girls to pick up the guitar. We just finished up her demos and they're being shopped. I have a good reason to be optimistic.
Rift - Whom else have you been working with?
KB - Caroline Smith is an 18-year old girl from Detroit Lakes. She's a brilliant songwriter. She's really great with words and language and she's a great singer. We did a demo at my studio and now we're working on a full-length album. She's still in Detroit Lakes finishing up high school. She finishes very soon. You'll be hearing a lot more about her soon.
Rift - Where did you meet her?
KB - Someone who works for BMI in New York contacted me and tipped me off to her. He told me she was amazing and she lives in Detroit Lakes, MN. I was wondering how the fuck he heard of her and what he was doing in my territory!
I'm also working with Tony Sims. He's an in town guy. He's an unbelievable singer, guitar player and piano player. He's in a rock band but what him and I are doing is more of a Dwight Yoakam and the Mavericks sort of thing. This is the music that's in his heart.
The 4th person I'm working with is a 22 year old named Allison Scott who is a piano player and a songwriter. She's one of the best songwriters I have ever worked with. The first few songs she ever wrote were wonderful. I resent her deeply because of that. She sings like crazy. Kind of like a Carole King/Laura Nyro sort of thing. I'm doing a full album with her and I'm going to build a band for her from scratch. I met her through a Woman in Music songwriting contest that I was on the panel for. She won the contest.
Rift - You have a knack for finding these small town talents. How do you decide who you want to work with?
KB - You can't be too cynical that you take on people who are not good which I have done in the past. You can't just take on someone that the label tells you they're good and you know they are not. It won't work. If they're crazy, if they have a huge drug or drinking problem, if they're lazy, it's okay if they have a personality disorder because every artist does but if they have the kind that will prevent them from having a career I won't work with them. I have a physical checklist that I go down. I get involved with people slowly and the first time I see crazy I'm gone because working with people sometimes takes two years of my life.
Rift - So you also take on a managerial role?
KB - Unwillingly. Usually I try to hook them up with management. Sometimes you have to be therapist, mother, father, older brother, priest, drug counselor, co-writer, producer, engineer, guitar player, manager, booking agent, publicist and all that kind of stuff. That's why I'm careful about who I work with. The four people I'm working with right now I'd jump in front of a train for them. I believe in them 1000 percent
Rift - What are your thoughts on Major Labels in today's musical climate?
KB - the problem with majors is their A&R guys are half my age and they don't know even know who Led Zeppelin are. Major label record labels have managed to squander away 25% of its revenue since 2000. I have never lost money on a record. They have and they're going to tell me what to do?
Rift - The big excuse for the majors is the problem with illegal downloading.
KB - They like to use that excuse and blame the customers. Downloading is stealing. It's wrong. People say crap about how they're just stealing from rich people. So that makes it right? Fuck that! The point is the record companies are responsible for their own situation. They didn't have the foresight and they alienated their audience. The biggest problem with the record industry is not downloading, in my opinion, it's that there isn't enough music worth the time or effort to even download. As an artist you can never put yourself in a position where you are beholden to them. You can never be at their mercy.
Rift - Doing it on your own can work out great. On a major you may only get $2 bucks per disc where if you're selling them on your own you're making $10.
KB - Exactly. They are good at selling J.Lo and Mariah Carey but the artists I work with may or may not benefit from them. Any artist that thinks that signing to a major is the be all end all and that constitutes as success is woefully ignorant.
Rift - There are a lot of records that never get released or the artist gets dropped soon after the record comes out.
KB - Or even before the album comes out. The percentage of albums that don't recoup their costs is about 95% in the last few years. That's a 95% failure rate. I don't think that people who play music should even care what a major label thinks. If someone walks into the room and they have a great track record believe me I will listen. A lot of great bands do it themselves and when the offers of money from the majors get so stupid they'll sign. Husker Du actually did that and got a good amount of money and total artistic control. Bob Mould is a very smart guy.
Rift - Do you play much on your own anymore?
KB - Actually I've been practicing my ass off and doing some acoustic shows around town and I just opened up for Etta James at the O'Shaughnessy Auditorium a couple of weeks ago and it went well. As long as I have new challenges. I'll do it. It was like the Westerberg tour. That was the first tour I've ever done. You've got to do what you don't know how to do.
Rift - Why did you never give up on music? You said you were in your 30's when you got your big break after many years of playing and writing.
KB - I just love music so much I couldn't give it up and secondly I'm a pathologically persistent and resourceful person. It's also to my detriment sometimes. In the Minneapolis music scene I've never been successful. The people I know and love like Gary Louris, Paul Westerberg and Dan Wilson all have had way more success than me. I feel like the kid who dropped out of high school because he couldn't cut it so he got a GED and somehow ended up at Harvard. My luck has come from some strange places. My stuff has never been the kind of thing that the City Pages writes about. Because of not getting caught up in that whole game and that sort of politics it's allowed me to focus on the music I love. Not being big in my hometown has kept me honest. It works better for me.
Rift - Do you have any advice for young people who are starting out that want to break into the songwriting business?
KB - Be polite, persistent, hang around and say yes even if you're not capable of doing it. The most important thing is getting the job. The second most important thing is to do a great job. Don't say you can't do something. You've got to get the job and find someone who can. There are a lot of talented people in Minneapolis and not much work. You've got to use your resources and get it done. |
